Path: news.wplus.net!newsfeed.wplus.net!news.moat.net!nntpfeed-01.ops.asmr-01.energis-idc.net!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!newsgate.cistron.nl!skynet.be!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail From: drhirudo@mail.bg (Ventzislav Tzvetkov) Newsgroups: comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.apple2.programmer Subject: Software compatibility between Oric and Apple 2? Date: 10 Nov 2003 09:49:05 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 272 Message-ID: <10573339.0311100949.4c8b3655@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.9.236.91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1068486545 19036 127.0.0.1 (10 Nov 2003 17:49:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:49:05 +0000 (UTC) Xref: news.wplus.net comp.sys.oric:499 comp.sys.apple2.programmer:308 I saw the discussion about the different 8 bit computers getting huge, so here is a follow-up article. Software compatibility between Oric and Apple 2. First of all - there is no compatibility at software level between the Oric and the Apple 2 series of microcomputers, but both computers share many common specifics. Compatibility is possible between computers with similar aspects (processor, memory management, input-output devices etc..). In Apple 2 and Oric there are enough common parts giving a chance some software from the one to be converted to the other and vice versa. At BASIC and DOS levels this is easy enough for the causal Oric/Apple 2 user to be able to convert programs and scripts between Apple 2 and Oric, so I won't discuss them here. The assembly level is the most problematic, since the ROMs of both computers are written in assembler and these machine language programs bang the hardware directly. Here I will mark the basis, without pretending the given info is fully accurate and/or descriptive, but it should be a good start for developing on the idea. Before describing the question about the software compatibility, I have to note that some differences in the organization of the two computers sometimes makes the conversion of programs from the one computer to the other almost impossible. The differences are biggest in the controls of the graphics and sound. In the Oric there is a special co-processor for sound - AY-3-8912, while in the Apple 2 there is a trigger, with which the membrane of the speaker is moved from one to other of the two possible positions. In the Oric, the control of the memory and the graphics is put to the ULA (Universal Logic Array) chip, which on the Apple 2 is different. On the Apple 2 there are 4 analog inputs, 4 digital inputs and outputs, while on the Oric they have to be simulated by software with the (VIA 6522). Apple 2 programs which use the double high resolution, and these, with requirements of extended memory are extremely hard for conversion, due to the different bankswitching/code jumping technologies used. With help from the tables given below it is possible to convert only some assembly language programs. If the program uses the graphical memory or sound effects, the subroutines must be rewritten, especially for the given case. Since the Oric doesn't have built-in monitor, programs on the Apple 2 which use monitor subroutines have to be rewritten too. With programs controling the disk drive on Oric the interrupts must be disabled (SEI), because the information written or read can get inaccurate. Another problem is that the Apple 2 doesn't have interrupts, so programs using interrupts must have to be totally rewritten. On the Apple 2 the control of the different modes is done by software switches, which are missing on the Oric. Simulation of these switches have to be done with jumping to subroutines of the BASIC interpreter, which do almost the same. Before trying to rewrite a program from one to the other computer you must be sure that you know the organization of the both computers equally well, and you can easily move from one to the other. Despite all this, it is more reasonable for a start to be done conversion of system tools and applications, while games and demos are much harder (But not impossible). In the end I will notice that there is more point in converting and translating programs from the Apple 2 to the Oric, since there is much less software for it. ZERO PAGE Apple Oric --------------------------- $0A-$0C $21-$23 $200-$2FF $35-$85 $67-$68 $9A-$9B $69-$6A $9C-$9D $6B-$6C $9E-$9F $6D-$6E $A0-$A1 $6F-$70 $A2-$A3 $73-$74 $A6-$A7 $75-$76 $A8-$A9 $77-$7A $AA-$AD $3F5-$3F7 $2FC-$2FD $E4 $213 $E0-$E1 $219 $E2 $21A $36-$37 $238-$23A $38-$39 $23B-$23D $21 $257 $24 $268 $25 $269 $22 $27E $28-$29 $19-$13 Oric - BASIC Adress -------------------------------- CALL - $E946 CHAR - $F12D CIRCLE - $F37F CLEAR - $C70D CLOAD - $E85B CONT - $C9AD CLS - $CCCE CSAVE - $E909 CURMOV - $F0FD CURSET - $F0C8 DATA - $CA3C DEF FN - $D4BA DIM - $D17E DOKE - $D967 DRAW - $F110 EDIT - $C692 END - $C973 EXPLODE - $FACB FILL - $F2C8 FOR - $C855 GET - $CD46 GOSUB - $C9C8 GOTO - $C9E5 GRAB - $E8E7 HIMEM - $EBCE HIRES - $EC33 IF - $CA70 INK - $F21D INPUT - $CD55 LET - $CB1C LIST - $C748 LLIST - $C7FD LORES - $D9DE LPRINT - $C809 MUSIC - $FC18 NEW - $C6EE ON - $CAC2 PAPER - $F204 PATTERN - $F11D PING - $FA9F PLAY - $FBD0 PLOT - $DA51 POINT - $F1C8 POKE - $D94F POP - $CA12 PRINT - $CBAB PULL - $DAA1 READ - $CD89 RECALL - $E9D1 RELEASE - $EC0C REM - $CA99 RESTORE - $C952 RETURN - $CA12 RUN - $C9BD SHOOT - $FAB5 SOUND - $FD40 STOP - $C971 STORE - $E987 TEXT - $EC21 TROFF - $CD10 TRON - $CD16 UNTIL - $DAA1 WAIT - $D958 ZAP - $FAE1 ! - $CD13 & - $DADB Apple 2 Oric (Disk controller) (Disk controller) $C080 - $310 $C081 - $311 $C082 - $312 $C083 - $313 $C084 - $314 $C085 - $315 $C086 - $316 $C087 - $317 $C088 - $318 $C089 - $319 $C08A - $31A $C08B - $31B $C08C - $31C $C08D - $31D $C08E - $31E $C08F - $31F Apple 2 Oric (monitor) $ED24 $E0C5 $FD0C $C5E8 $FD6F $C592 $FDED $CC9D $FE89/$FE93 $E93D $FB2F $F9C9 $C000 $2DF $C010 $2DF $C083 $381 (With 16 KB RAM expansion). Graphic memory: Apple 2 Oric TEXT/LOWRES 1 - $0400-$07FF $BB80-$BFE0 TEXT/LOWRES 2 - $0800-$0BFF HIRES 1 - $2000-$3FFF $A000-$BFE0 HIRES 2 - $4000-$5FFF Double text/lowres and double highres modes on the Apple use twice amount of memory with half of that in the standart RAM, and the other half in the extended memory, accessed with software swithces - $C000, $C001, $C018. But I won't describe them here. Note that the Apple uses different memory locations for the TEXT/LOWRES modes, allowing easy switch between text/graphic modes, while on the Oric, the graphic and text modes overlap each other, and if you need to save the text while switching to HIRES, you need to copy the screen data, and later sending it back, after switching again to TEXT, if there is a demand for save of the text on the screen. Also the Apple 2 have two pages for each mode, which are easily switched between each other ($C051 for first page, $C052 for second page), with just one read/write to the software switches, making it easy for double buffered animation, while the Oric needs copying of data to the graphic memory, thus slow. Organization of the graphic memory is different too. On the Apple 2, the first row of text/graphic is on address $0400-$0427/$4000-$4027, but the second is on $0480-$04A7/$4080-$40A7, the third $0500-$527/$4100-$4127 etc..i.e. non linear, while on the Oric the first row is $BB80/$A000, the second is on $BBA8/$A0A8 etc..i.e. linear. Producing sound on the Apple 2 is done by accessing the $C030 memory cell, which is software switch, forcing the sound membrane to move. Reading/writing this switch with different frequency, produces sounds with different pitch, and this is all you need to know about the Apple 2 sound capabilities. Needless to say - this takes all the CPU resources, while on the Oric you just can program the AY-3-8912 for the job, but you are not able to do it directly, which makes sound converting little more complex. The easier way is to use the PLAY subroutine from the ROM. That's about the theoretical part. Now some explanations how to use this in practise. The hardest way is to directly disassemble the program on your Oric/Apple 2 and then start rewriting it on the opposite platform, taking in account whenever the code use hardware/ROM specific routines, rewriting them for the target. Problems will arise when you replace routines containing access to software switches, which will obviosly be more/less bytes. If it is less that's easy - just fill the unused bytes with NOPs, but if it is more, that will make non-relocatable code really hard to translate and the mess will raise fast. More easier is to write a library (or second ROM), which contains the most used subroutines of the source platfrom rewritten for the target platform and a program which checks if the translated code makes jump to these routines and if so, to replace this with jump to the library (This program can be written on any computer platform). This way you replace 2 bytes with 2 bytes. Second - check if the program uses the software switches, and replace these routines with your own routines, which can be in the library too, which is the better choise and keeps the code size too. Third - check if the program attempts to self modify/makes direct jumps in own code or some other relocatable unfriendly code and replace this code with indirect jumps, non self modifying code etc.., so it will work on the target platfrom from different address. All this can be done by a program (Not by hand). Another bet is writing a software simulator, which starts the program in it's native unchanged form, from the source platfrom, on the target platform. While executing a program, the simulator checks if there is a hardware specific code and replaces it with own code and then jumps to the next opcode, this done by interrupt routines. With this you can execute Apple 2 programs directly on the Oric, without modifying them, thus not violating their copyright. For native BASIC programs - interpreter of Applesoft BASIC on the Oric and Oric BASIC interpreter on the Apple 2 is a reasonable choise too. For an end I will say that I really would love to have SWEET 16 on the Oric. 2003 © by Ventzislav Tzvetkov Any comments/corrections/additions/flames etc.. will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. BYE -- http://drhirudo.hit.bg Path: news.wplus.net!newsfeed.wplus.net!news1.spb.su!newsfeed.stueberl.de!teaser.fr!blob.linuxfr.org!212.27.32.7!proxad.net!feeder2-1.proxad.net!news2-2.free.fr!not-for-mail From: "Euphoric" Newsgroups: comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.apple2.programmer References: <10573339.0311100949.4c8b3655@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: Software compatibility between Oric and Apple 2? Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:15:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 16 Message-ID: <3fb13542$0$27594$626a54ce@news.free.fr> Organization: Guest of ProXad - France NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 2003 20:15:15 MET NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.14.91.186 X-Trace: 1068578115 news2-2.free.fr 27594 80.14.91.186:3137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Xref: news.wplus.net comp.sys.oric:514 comp.sys.apple2.programmer:310 "Ventzislav Tzvetkov" a écrit dans le message de news: 10573339.0311100949.4c8b3655@posting.google.com... > [lots of very interesting stuff] > 2003 © by Ventzislav Tzvetkov Thanks a lot, Ventzislav, that's definitely useful. I'm sure Sweet16 wouldn't be too hard to port on the Oric... If I help you porting it, would you help me port Sargon III and Robot Odissey ?-) Best regards, Fabrice Path: news.wplus.net!newsfeed.wplus.net!news1.spb.su!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail From: drhirudo@mail.bg (Ventzislav Tzvetkov) Newsgroups: comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.apple2.programmer Subject: Re: Software compatibility between Oric and Apple 2? Date: 11 Nov 2003 18:31:34 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 36 Message-ID: <10573339.0311111831.677a1c33@posting.google.com> References: <10573339.0311100949.4c8b3655@posting.google.com> <3fb13542$0$27594$626a54ce@news.free.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.9.236.91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1068604294 24183 127.0.0.1 (12 Nov 2003 02:31:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:31:34 +0000 (UTC) Xref: news.wplus.net comp.sys.oric:519 comp.sys.apple2.programmer:313 "Euphoric" wrote in message > I'm sure Sweet16 wouldn't be too hard to port on the Oric... As I stated in the article, for a start it's better to begin with applications software, because they mostly use the processor, rather than fancy graphic and sound effects. The Sweet16 source code was available on the Merlin assembler disk, but I don't have it anymore. With having the original source core, the port is even easier. > If I help you porting it, would you help me port Sargon III and Robot > Odissey ?-) I am doing a research on the most used sound and graphic routines on the Apple 2 and about their equivalents on the Oric. With the sound there aren't as many problems as with the graphic. The Apple 2 monochrome highres mode is 280/192 pixels, while on the Oric the graphic is 240*200 (no diference between monochrome and color), but if you intrepret the Apple 2 display as color, the resolution is 140/192, which is still the same even in double highres, but there are 4bits per color pixel (16 colors total) in the double highres. So far the Apple 2 displays 7 bits/pixels per byte (40*7=280), while the Oric only 6 bits/pixel per byte (40*6=240). Two possible compromises are interpreting the Apple 2 graphics as color and try to implement them as color on the Oric too, or omiting 1 pixel per byte on the Oric graphics display and not using any color, with directly writing the graphic bytes to the video memory. The first is preferable, because then you can have the whole picture, without crushing the display, but it's harder to implement too. The LOWRES modes (GR and GR2 on the Apple 2) are easy to simulate by using the mosaic characters present in the Oric. Later I will do another comparasion table for Apple 2 characters in the lowres and Oric mosaic equivalents. Regards -- http://drhirudo.hit.bg Path: news.wplus.net!newsfeed.wplus.net!news1.spb.su!newsfeed.stueberl.de!proxad.net!feeder2-1.proxad.net!news2-1.free.fr!not-for-mail From: "Euphoric" Newsgroups: comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.apple2.programmer References: <10573339.0311100949.4c8b3655@posting.google.com> <3fb13542$0$27594$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <10573339.0311111831.677a1c33@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: Sweet16 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:35:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 19 Message-ID: <3fb1f0d8$0$27028$626a54ce@news.free.fr> Organization: Guest of ProXad - France NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Nov 2003 09:35:36 MET NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.54.122.159 X-Trace: 1068626136 news2-1.free.fr 27028 193.54.122.159:3026 X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Xref: news.wplus.net comp.sys.oric:521 comp.sys.apple2.programmer:314 "Ventzislav Tzvetkov" a écrit dans le message de news: 10573339.0311111831.677a1c33@posting.google.com... > "Euphoric" wrote in message > > I'm sure Sweet16 wouldn't be too hard to port on the Oric... > > As I stated in the article, for a start it's better to begin with > applications software, because they mostly use the processor, rather > than fancy graphic and sound effects. The Sweet16 source code was > available on the Merlin assembler disk, but I don't have it anymore. > With having the original source core, the port is even easier. Perhaps Carsten has this source code ? I think he said there was an article about Sweet16, written by Steve himself... Fabrice Path: news.wplus.net!newsfeed.wplus.net!news1.spb.su!newsfeed.stueberl.de!proxad.net!feeder2-1.proxad.net!news2-1.free.fr!not-for-mail From: "Euphoric" Newsgroups: comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.apple2.programmer References: <10573339.0311100949.4c8b3655@posting.google.com> <3fb13542$0$27594$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <10573339.0311111831.677a1c33@posting.google.com> <3fb1f0d8$0$27028$626a54ce@news.free.fr> Subject: Re: Sweet16 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:28:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 55 Message-ID: <3fb20b4c$0$27023$626a54ce@news.free.fr> Organization: Guest of ProXad - France NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Nov 2003 11:28:28 MET NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.54.122.159 X-Trace: 1068632908 news2-1.free.fr 27023 193.54.122.159:3297 X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Xref: news.wplus.net comp.sys.oric:522 comp.sys.apple2.programmer:315 "Euphoric" a écrit dans le message de news: 3fb1f0d8$0$27028$626a54ce@news.free.fr... > Perhaps Carsten has this source code ? Well, now I remember Carsten indeed posted the disassembly of the 300 bytes of Sweet16... http://www.gno.org/pub/apple2/doc/hardware/motherboards/sweet16.txt The only problem is that most of the 32 first bytes of page 0 are already used on the Oric... However, there is a contiguous area for 32 zeropage-bytes : in the entry buffer ($35-$84), so it should be rather easy to port it... For example, just say that: R0L EQU $60 R0H EQU $61 R14H EQU $7D R15L EQU $7E R15H EQU $7F Now you just need a SAVE and a RESTORE routine, but if you want the best compatibility, you just need to change the ones found in the Apple2 rom with Oric-compatible zeropage locations: SAVE: sta $80 stx $81 sty $82 php pla sta $83 tsx stx $84 cld rts RESTORE: lda $83 pha lda $80 ldx $81 ldy $82 plp rts ; well, S is not restored in this Apple2 routine. That's it, Sweet16 on the Oric... Have you got any Sweet16 application to run ? Cheers, Fabrice Path: news.netfront.net!skynet.be!freenix!proxad.net!feeder2-1.proxad.net!news3-2.free.fr!not-for-mail From: "kamelito" Newsgroups: comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.apple2.programmer References: <10573339.0311100949.4c8b3655@posting.google.com> <3fb13542$0$27594$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <10573339.0311111831.677a1c33@posting.google.com> <3fb1f0d8$0$27028$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3fb20b4c$0$27023$626a54ce@news.free.fr> Subject: Re: Software compatibility between Oric and Apple 2? Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:42:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 22 Message-ID: <3fc0d55f$0$17094$626a54ce@news.free.fr> Organization: Guest of ProXad - France NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Nov 2003 16:42:24 MET NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.176.188.80 X-Trace: 1069602144 news3-2.free.fr 17094 172.176.188.80:3901 X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Xref: news.netfront.net comp.sys.oric:5194 comp.sys.apple2.programmer:2179 Hello, What we need first IMHO, is a good 6502 interactive decompiler for the Apple2. Once you've the Apple2 binary, the decompiler (sourcer, disassembler...) will produce a ASM file and it would be then easier to port a Apple2 software on the Oric. (the decompiler should raplace access to the ROM or Apple Hardware with label for a better understanding of the source. If in plus it could recognize graphics, etc that would be perfect. (like the atari interactive disassembler, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ebacher/) This disassembler could also recognized Oric specificity to port Oric software to the Apple2. I look on the internet and wasn't able to find such a program. Regards Kamel Path: news.netfront.net!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!proxad.net!feeder2-1.proxad.net!news3-2.free.fr!not-for-mail From: "kamelito" Newsgroups: comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.apple2.programmer References: <10573339.0311100949.4c8b3655@posting.google.com> <3fb13542$0$27594$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <10573339.0311111831.677a1c33@posting.google.com> <3fb1f0d8$0$27028$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3fb20b4c$0$27023$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3fc0d55f$0$17094$626a54ce@news.free.fr> Subject: Re: Software compatibility between Oric and Apple 2? Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:48:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3fc0d6ec$0$17090$626a54ce@news.free.fr> Organization: Guest of ProXad - France NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Nov 2003 16:49:01 MET NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.176.188.80 X-Trace: 1069602541 news3-2.free.fr 17090 172.176.188.80:4365 X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Xref: news.netfront.net comp.sys.oric:5195 comp.sys.apple2.programmer:2180 Hi Oops, I just noticed will not trying it that the Atari interactive disassembler also support the Oric, any chance to add the Apple2? Regards kml "kamelito" a écrit dans le message de news: 3fc0d55f$0$17094$626a54ce@news.free.fr... > Hello, > > What we need first IMHO, is a good 6502 interactive decompiler for the > Apple2. Once you've the Apple2 binary, the decompiler (sourcer, > disassembler...) > will produce a ASM file and it would be then easier to port a Apple2 > software on the Oric. (the decompiler should raplace access to the ROM or > Apple Hardware with label for a better understanding of the > source. If in plus it could recognize graphics, etc that would be perfect. > (like the atari interactive disassembler, > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ebacher/) > This disassembler could also recognized Oric specificity to port Oric > software to the Apple2. > > I look on the internet and wasn't able to find such a program. > > Regards > > Kamel > > > Path: news.netfront.net!skynet.be!skynet.be!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 17 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mjmahon@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer Date: 02 Dec 2003 07:11:52 GMT References: <3fc0d6ec$0$17090$626a54ce@news.free.fr> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Software compatibility between Oric and Apple 2? Message-ID: <20031202021152.14148.00001313@mb-m15.aol.com> Xref: news.netfront.net comp.sys.apple2.programmer:2201 kamelito wrote: > What we need first IMHO, is a good 6502 interactive decompiler for the > Apple2. Are you familiar with the usual Apple disassemblers (that run on the Apple II)? Roger Wagner's SOURCER is good, and Bob Sander-Cederlof also wrote a fine disassembler. Both are batch disassemblers, driven by a "script" that supplies symbolic information and comments. Both are now freeware, IIRC. -michael Check out amazing quality sound for 8-bit Apples on my Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/ Path: news.netfront.net!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 03:49:57 -0600 From: "Bill Garber" Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer References: <3fc0d6ec$0$17090$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <20031202021152.14148.00001313@mb-m15.aol.com> Subject: Re: Software compatibility between Oric and Apple 2? Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 04:49:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Lines: 42 NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.85.122.196 X-Trace: sv3-06CrO2bDVh9AMILaTMvT30uavZ0dqQqG44jKzNPKnx11ADniyhOU72cVq+so97MbjNVl2aZoQu44o4d!HcerkYV2S2DIhzR/JSzXOksC0X7B7eRNP7+dP0TaNjOgKPMmpi9VFixNmJ4hFA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Xref: news.netfront.net comp.sys.apple2.programmer:2202 "Michael J. Mahon" wrote in message news:20031202021152.14148.00001313@mb-m15.aol.com... : kamelito wrote: : : > What we need first IMHO, is a good 6502 interactive decompiler for the : > Apple2. : : Are you familiar with the usual Apple disassemblers (that run on the : Apple II)? : : Roger Wagner's SOURCER is good, and Bob Sander-Cederlof also : wrote a fine disassembler. Both are batch disassemblers, driven by : a "script" that supplies symbolic information and comments. Both : are now freeware, IIRC. I have MerlinPro which includes Sourcerer, but I haven't heard of the other one. Do you know where we can find it? I also have one for PC, uncommented, that I got from Laine Houghton. It works pretty well, although it does crash on some things like Roms that don't end properly. It works on them, but you get a dialog box and have to close it manually. Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-) Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net Remove - SPAM and X to contact me --- This email ain't infected, dude! Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/27/03 Path: news.netfront.net!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 36 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mjmahon@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer Date: 03 Dec 2003 01:17:33 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Software compatibility between Oric and Apple 2? Message-ID: <20031202201733.14277.00000051@mb-m28.aol.com> Xref: news.netfront.net comp.sys.apple2.programmer:2203 Bill Garber wrote: >"Michael J. Mahon" wrote in message >news:20031202021152.14148.00001313@mb-m15.aol.com... >: kamelito wrote: >: >: > What we need first IMHO, is a good 6502 interactive >decompiler for the >: > Apple2. >: >: Are you familiar with the usual Apple disassemblers (that run >on the >: Apple II)? >: >: Roger Wagner's SOURCER is good, and Bob Sander-Cederlof also >: wrote a fine disassembler. Both are batch disassemblers, >driven by >: a "script" that supplies symbolic information and comments. >Both >: are now freeware, IIRC. > >I have MerlinPro which includes Sourcerer, but I haven't heard >of the other one. Do you know where we can find it? Check at: http://home.tiscali.se/pausch/apple2/dsk.html It's down the page a ways...along with a veritable treasure chest of goodies for Apple II assembly language users. (Thanks, Paul! ;-) -michael Check out amazing quality sound for 8-bit Apples on my Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/ Path: news.netfront.net!HSNX.atgi.net!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.stueberl.de!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:53:55 -0600 From: "Bill Garber" Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer References: <20031202201733.14277.00000051@mb-m28.aol.com> Subject: Re: Software compatibility between Oric and Apple 2? Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:52:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: <7LidnTJKLZzezVCi4p2dnA@comcast.com> Lines: 56 NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.85.122.196 X-Trace: sv3-xpnvmALkQKIZRCTSuf7MANpQ7mJ4mgWUN3JliPHBCHqKQRWohRP1Vd6AP0mIZDPgUuC+8jWEzQ5N7N2!DkcvDxYnhBH22uZAGdK7KvCC2c97/ElHLibPY8ed6BxC+Hg5vpEUlIa3g2GQCg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Xref: news.netfront.net comp.sys.apple2.programmer:2204 "Michael J. Mahon" wrote in message news:20031202201733.14277.00000051@mb-m28.aol.com... : Bill Garber wrote: : : >"Michael J. Mahon" wrote in message : >news:20031202021152.14148.00001313@mb-m15.aol.com... : >: kamelito wrote: : >: : >: > What we need first IMHO, is a good 6502 interactive : >decompiler for the : >: > Apple2. : >: : >: Are you familiar with the usual Apple disassemblers (that run : >on the : >: Apple II)? : >: : >: Roger Wagner's SOURCER is good, and Bob Sander-Cederlof also : >: wrote a fine disassembler. Both are batch disassemblers, : >driven by : >: a "script" that supplies symbolic information and comments. : >Both : >: are now freeware, IIRC. : > : >I have MerlinPro which includes Sourcerer, but I haven't heard : >of the other one. Do you know where we can find it? : : Check at: : : http://home.tiscali.se/pausch/apple2/dsk.html Oh yeah, the S-C Assembler. I've messed with it a bit before I knew, well understood how the Apple II worked, how to program in assembly language. Now that I have some ROM source listings it is becoming easier to disassemble programs and understand where all the JMPs and JSRs are going. I've written a few short write to screen programs and burned them to eprom, inserted them into a card, put them in a slot and booted them. It's kool to see something you do actually work. ;-) Thank you Michael, and everyone else who has been nice enough to bear with me and help me learn this stuff. Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-) Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net Remove - SPAM and X to contact me --- This email ain't infected, dude! Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/25/03